Hello to all! I'm a newbie both to this forum and to woodworking and I have a question about kickback. I recently purchased a table saw and was wondering what to expect when a kickback occurs. I've used a circle saw before and have experienced kickback with it and I can only imagine that with the table saw it will be worse. Just wanted to be better prepared for when it happens with the TS.

Yes, a table saw can throw a board through concrete block, so you need to have the utmost respect for it. That said, I know plenty of long-time woodworkers who have never had a serious table saw incident because they always, absolutely ALWAYS, follow table saw safety rules. If you need to know the rules, please say so and we'll be glad to list them. Not knowing how to use a table saw properly is a leading cause of table saw disasters.

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Johanna - in the Land of Enchantment

A well-tuned saw, a splitter, a top guard, and a push stick should be used. As well as understanding the safety measures needed.

Also tell us where you are located. Maybe someone is near enough to give you some hands on.

Failing that, tell us what kind of saw you have. We can help you get started right and safely.

To follow up on one thing Carol said, table saw set up. Far to many take the set procedures as something they do "well sort of". There are several books on the subject (Barb or Carol might be able to suggest some) but the point I'm trying to make is that set up is very important. If your saw is dead on and you follow the saftey rules you will stay out of the emergency room alot longer.
JohnP

DMR,
From the sound of your posting, you want to know how kickback will feel or in your words "what to expect when a kickback occurs." How about "I plan never to have a kickback in my shop." That is possible if you follow "the rules." There are no rules that I know of, just lots of warnings and suggestions. I am going to my website right now and see if I can't put together "The Rules." I think I have covered them one or two at a time...and maybe I can put them together...I will report back here when done. Thanks for the idea.
John Lucas
www.woodshopdemos.com

Edited: 11/26/2006 at 12:44 PM by John Lucas

Thanks to all for your help. I live in Starkville Ms which is a very small town in the eastern part of the state. Starkville is home to a major university and there is a small community college within 10 miles of my home. Unfortunately for me neither seem to offer woodworking classes. I recently came across the name of a furniture builder that I plan to contact in hopes that he will be willing to let me hang around and gain a few pointers. In the mean time, it's trail and error! {heavy on the error}
My table saw is a Ridgid brand contractors saw that is mounted on a wheeled cart. I have limited work space { one car garage} so any tools that I aquire must be mobile to stow away easily when not in use.I've followed the manufactors guidelines for tuning my saw to the best of my ability and it seems to be in good order. I'm in the process of becoming familiar with my TS by making jigs for use with the saw. Made push sticks and blocks and I'm currently building a cross cut sled. As you would expect with a beginner nothing is going easily so any suggestions or tips you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

John is right. Plan on never having a kickback.

Kickback is caused by one thing only: the part gets bound up allowing the blade to throw it out like sand from under a car tire.

The very first thing is to have the saw tuned right. Blade parallel to the miter slot, and rip fence pparallel to the blade. (Set them up in that order)

Look at your cuts and see where binding can occur. If the saw is properly set up, and the edge you are ripping from is straight, the board will not bind between the blade and ripfence, so no kickback there.

When bevel cutting, set the ripfence so that the blade is angled away fro m the fence. The board will tend to lift up and away from the blade. If the blade is tilted toward the fence, the board can easily get bound up between the fence and blade.

Never use the ripfence and the miter guage at the same time when cutting through a piece. Again, the loose piece can turn and get stuck between the ripfence and blade.

The only binding that is hard to see or predict is a stressed board. The saw kerf can close behind the cut and pinch the back side of the blade. A proper splitter will keep the kerf open and prevent the kickback.

Lastly, I'll add that you need to listen to that little voice in your head. If you don't feel safe making a cut, YOU ARE PROBABLY RIGHT and should figure out a safer way.

Hope this helps,

Ralph

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www.consultingwoodworker.com

To plan to never have a kickback, here is what you need to know and do.

A kickback is caused by the teeth of the blade coming up out of the table on the backside of the blade of the blade and lifting the workpiece up off the table. Then the blade tosses it back at you. Quick and fast. Your injury comes from not being able to retract your hand fast enough to keep the blade from getting you. A secondary injury can be the wood hitting you, doubling you over and in throwing out your hands to break your fall, you may land on the spinning blade.

Now that sounds scary and it is. But it is manageable. After all, millions of people have safely used the table saw with injury. You can too. Now you know what you must prevent.

There are two areas you will need to address.

The first is the saw itself. The second is your technique.

First, the saw.

Here a few thousandths can make a difference, so order a dial indicator from Harbor Freight. $14 plus shipping. This is very handy for setting up all sorts of tools. This will just be the first one. Make a sled for it. The sled is just a piece of plywood or plastic with a runner that fits the miter slot screwed to it. The back has a mounting post. Drill a hole in your sled to slide the post into, with the plunger pointed at the blade. Mount it so the plunger can reach the blade and still have room to travel.

Unplug the saw.
Mark a tooth with a Sharpie. With the measuring sled in the slot, turn the blade so the marked tooth is closest to you. Place the plunger end against the tooth. Set the dial indicator to zero. Rotate the tooth furthest from you. Slide the sled blade and place the plunger against the same tooth. Read the indicator. If it does not read zero, you will have to adjust the trunnion until it does. The trunnion is that part of the saw that turns the blade. Slightly loosen the bolts that fasten the trunnion to the table top. Adjust the table with a light tap in the direction you need to go. Tighten thing up and measure again. Do this until you measure zero at both settings. Yes, it is finicky and it takes time. Take solace in the fact that no matter how much you spent for your saw, this step needs to be done. Don't assume that this will be perfect out of the box. Rarely is.

Now the fence. Flip your dial indicator sled around so the plunger points to the fence. Lock the fence in a position where the plunger touches the fence but still has room to travel. At a point closest to you, set the dial indicator to zero. Run it to just past the blade and measure again. Here you want the fence .002 to .005 further away from the miter slot. Not closer! Further. Adjust you fence until that is so.

Your saw came with a saw guard and splitter. Use it or make something to take its place. If you want to make something, I can help you with pictures.

Here is the deal with that. The splitter keeps the kerf open past the blade keeping the blade from picking up the wood and throwing it at you, etc. The top guard deflects the wood if your technique is such the wood can be picked up.

Yup. Technique has something to do with it as well. First, always use a push stick for any cut that is narrower than the space between the right miter slot and the blade. And not just any old push stick. You want one that holds the wood down as well as pushes it along. It needs to hold the wood down 7-8 inches in front of the heel that pushes the wood. Look at the picture. Note the shape of the push stick. Also note that the push stick points slightly toward the fence. That means that a little push against the fence as you push the wood along helps keep the blade from picking up the wood.

The second part of technique is to stand to the side slightly. Look at the second picture. The push stick as good control of the workpiece but the part that is being cut off could come flying back. Standing slightly to the side allows it the fly past you if it has a notion to go flying.

Continue your push until the wood is well past the blade and splitter. Do not move the cut-off piece until the saw stops running or if the piece is large enough, touch it well past the back side of the splitter to move it away from the blade. If it is too small for that, shut the saw off. Wait until it quits spinning and then remove the piece.

One last thing, you need an off-feed table, something the cut pieces can rest on after you have push them past the blade. Trying to keep a cut piece from falling to the floor is an excellent way to hurt yourself badly on a table saw.

Best I can do from several states away.

OK. I uploaded three pictures. What happened to them?

Good to know I was not the only one who couldn't see the pictures!

I've been using a table saw for 20 years now and it still scares me. It took me a long time to gain confidence particularly ripping pieces.That being said, the only time I ever experienced a kickback was when I was merrily using a miter to do some repeated cut offs ( a proceedure that didn't scare me at all) and I had not moved the fence far enough away and didn't clear the cut offs out of the way. A piece bounced off a piece that bounced off the fence that bounced back into the spinning blade and went whizzing by my head like a bullet. It actually grazed my ear and cut it slightly. It was a "Depends" moment if you know what I mean. Lesson learned - the hard way.

The only other thing I would add is that you should learn how to shut your saw off quickly...practice it. Also, featherboards and hold downs are well worth the extra effort to set up.

Judy

sorry about the pictures.

looks like Dave has turned off the picture option again.

I don't have another place on the web to store pictures at the moment, so it looks like the time I took to formulate you some help is wasted.

If you email me directly, I can email you the pictures.

carol.j.reed@gmail.com

Carol,

The picture option is still active. Note that it is a 2-step process within the popup window. First you find the picture and click the Upload button. Then you select the picture from your list and click the Attach button. That's how I did this one:




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Dave Werden
Senior Web Developer, Rockler Companies

Edited: 11/27/2006 at 07:40 AM by dwerden

Dave,

When I click on the image button, all I get is a pop-up asking for a URL. When I click on the "Attach File(s)" button on the bottom, I can upload and then attach, but that seems to be restricted to a text file, not a jpg. That is what I tried and the pictures were not included.

BTW, I still can't rid of the orange thingies. My cookies are working, because the site remembers that I am logged in.

Sorry, but I am frustrated beyond words with this.

I'm working with Carol to fix the upload issue. In the meantime, here are the pictures she was trying to upload earlier (see posts above):




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Dave Werden
Senior Web Developer, Rockler Companies

It looks like this is caused by using the arrow keys on the browser to navigate instead of using the forum's links. If any of you are having this problem, please see the FAQ section and look for the topic called "How Do I Set It to Only See New Messages."

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Dave Werden
Senior Web Developer, Rockler Companies

Carol's suggestions on saw setup were excellent.

The majority of saws come from the factory with a combination guard/splitter assembly that range from annoying, to useless. This includes the General 650 I purchased a few years ago.

I have been unable to find a North American saw with a guard and splitter that are usable for non through sawing operations such as dadoeing and rebating, this defect encourages many people to perform these operations without a splitter or guard. I feel that this is why emergency room doctors see so many dado accidents.

In a non through sawing operation, the splitter (or riving knife) would have to raise with the blade, so that it was slightly lower than the top of the blade. This would allow the splitter to prevent the rotation of the workpiece into the fence side of the blade. An overarm guard would also be required to prevent accidental contact with the dado cutter.

This is the arrangement I use with my 650, I purchased an Excalibur overarm guard with dust collection, and I installed a Merlin removable splitter. (The splitter detaches from the saw via a device that resembles a seat belt latch, without having to remove the throat plate).

The overarm guard is excellent and can be used for non through sawing operations. The Merlin splitter is good, however it doesn't adjust for height, and therefore must be removed for non through sawing operations.

To provide a splitter for non through sawing, I made several new zero clearance inserts from HDPE plastic, and installed splitters of slightly less than 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 widths, to accomodate different widthss of dado or rebating cutters. (As you increase the dado width, the right side of the cutter moves right on my saw, requiring a different splitter position).

This will continue to be a problem until legislation, or customer disatisfaction forces saw manufacturers to make a product that is as well engineered, and as safe as European machinery (which is legislated).

Carol was also correct in that an outfeed table is not a luxury, it is a safety requirement. The outfeed table makes ripping, as well as panel cross cutting far safer, since you don't have an unsupported workpiece that you are wrestling with.

I built a folding one for my saw, since my shop is very small and I couldn't afford to lose that floor space on a continuous basis.

Regards, Rod.

Edited: 11/30/2006 at 08:33 AM by Rod Sheridan

Very valuable info. Thanks for getting the pic's uploaded. I couldn't visualize what Carol was describing, but the pictures make it quite clear. My thanks to all!!!

There is something to the technique that hasn't been mentioned here while pushing the piece through... if you don't do this right, you are going to have kick back problems.

If you are using a push stick or your hand, your "push" pressure should be closer to the blade than it is to the fence. If you are pushing near the fence, the work wants to twist counter clockwise (assuming your fence and workpiece are to the left of the blade). If this happens, the wood will be kicked back by the blade.

If you are pushing closer to the blade, the piece will want to twist clockwise... which will keep it snug against the fence and running true. This is what you want to do.

If you are cutting a number of small pieces with your miter gauge, stop the saw and move each piece off the table as you cut it.

If you can cut a sheet of plywood down to smaller sizes before ripping, do it. My saw can easily handle a full sheet of ply with my extension tables. But I still will manually rip up a full sheet into smaller and more manageable pieces before feeding them to the beast. This is very time consuming but I've had an accident free history since I started doing this.

When I approach the saw for every single cut I make, I stand to the side and I think about how I am going to fall if I get hit from a kickback. I've only had a kickback once after thinking through it all and I fell away from the blade because I had thought about it before hand.

Michelle

Carol the dial indicator you suggested finally arrived, but for the life of me I don't know how to use it. I mean I know what to do once I figure out how the dial indicator works. {thanks to the pics} It's the dial indicator itself that I'm unfamiliar with. On the one I got from HF sometimes the plunger will depress all the way in and sometimes only a fraction of the way. What am I doing wrong? What are the two little "screws"on the sides of the indicator for? I assume one of them is to zero the device, but which one? And what does the other one do? Sorry, but I have no experience with this tool.